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Thursday, February 26, 2009

Legacy

Posted by AR

This will be a short one and is here to facilitate discussion more than anything.I was thinking recently that there are very few definite answers in basketball.Ask who's the best player,people will say Kobe or LeBron.Ask who's the best PG in the game,people will say CP3 or Deron(though it's getting less and less debateable).Ask who's the best defender,I can think of at least ten guys who I could make an argument for,ditto for most useless(the list is shortening-RIP Jerome James).Anyway,my point being,ask any kind of 'who's the best...?' or 'who's the most...?' relating to basketball,you'll find a littany of responses,most of them not wrong.

Bringing me to this,when thinking of which active NBA player currently has the best basketball(READ:not just NBA) legacy,I can't look past this guy:


And I don't think it's even close.

Discuss.

20 comments:

Moose said...

Dude, you need to at LEAST consider Mr. O'Neal. I'd vote him number one.

AR said...

Duncan:
USBWA College Player of the Year (1997)
Naismith College Player of the Year (1997)
John Wooden Award (1997)
ACC Player of the Year (1996, 1997)
NBA Rookie of the Year (1998)
NBA MVP (2002, 2003)
NBA Finals MVP (1999, 2003, 2005)
NBA Champion (1999, 2003, 2005, 2007)

O'Neal:
4-time NBA Champion
2000 NBA MVP
'92-'93 NBA Rookie of the Year
3-time NBA Finals MVP
2-time NBA Scoring Champion
3-time All-Star MVP

I'll grant that it looks close.For me,it's Duncan.

Moose said...

Well, here's what I have to say to that last tally: The college ones are slightly invalid, Duncan graduated while Shaq didn't (well, while he was playing) so O'Neal didn't have the opportunity that Duncan did to do all of that stuff.

Shaq: 15 time all-star
1994 FIBA World Championship MVP
2 olympic golds

CHECK HIBACHI.

AR said...

Well they're not,since I said 'best overall basketball legacy',but I did leave out Shaq's college awards by mistake.

Plus,Duncan could have would have been the first pick if he left after his sophomore and junior years,I won't punish him for staying in school.Plus,Shaq did have the opportunity to do that stuff,and he did.

What are irrelevant are All Stars.The reason I put Duncan ahead of Shaq is because Shaq at least had DWade and Kobe,however good you think Parker is,he's no Kobe.Duncan did have the Admiral,but a very old one.Without Duncan they probably wouldn't have even been a playoff team.Plus,over the last few years,Shaq has fluctuated hugely.From not giving a shit and getting fat again in Miami to somewhat of a resurgence in PHX-that resurgence caused one of the most entertaining teams in recent memory to cease to be,well him and Maid Marion being a bitch.Duncan is constant.

Plus even in the media,Shaq has ranged from being a cuddly teddy bear to a massive asshole.That's the part of Shaq I can't figure out,when he's being serious-is it when he's calling out Phil and Kobe or when he's looking all nice and apologetic.With Duncan..well the press don't pay much attention to Duncan.

I do love Shaw btw.

Eboy said...

It's Shaq....then close behind it's Tim and then Kobe. Lebron will be in the 3rd spot if he can win a title and steadily moving up once Shaq's gone and Timmy falls off some. Kobe will take a step to the forefront if he can win another couple of titles.

Moose said...

@ Eboy for Kobe "if he wins a coupla titles": Not happening. No way. As for Bron, I think that he has a chance to be the G.O.A.T. with a big number of chips. If it's going to be somebody, LeBron's the one. He has the talent/potential. I'm not saying he will.

Eboy said...

When you say not happening, no way are you saying Kobe will not get another ring in his career, Moose?

Moose said...

I think that he will not get another chip. Too many great emerging teams with Kobe starting to age (not saying it's showing, though).

Eboy said...

Well, I'll say this....if he doesn't get one this season.....where the NBA is going to make every effort to try and gift it to him.....he's going to have a hard road getting one after this season.

Justin Walsh said...

how about I enter my opinion. Tim Duncan- Best Power Forward of ALL TIME. OF ALL TIME.

Shaq- top 4 in his position

And just for good measure, my best players of all time...

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Magic Johnson
4. Wilt
5. Dr. J
6. Larry Legend
7. Karl Malone
8. Kevin McHale
9. Kobe Bryant
10. Hakeem

I know there will be extreme disagreements on this list. Deal with it! :)

Tariq al Hayder said...

Define "basketball legacy". If your definition of legacy is number of achievements in both the NBA and college, then Tim has a slight edge over Shaq, simply because he (apparently) won more in college. (I don't follow college ball).

However, if we were ranking all-time greats, I'd rank Shaq higher than Tim. Why? Because at his absolute best, Duncan was a beast, and unstoppable and all of that. But Shaq at his best was something else. I used to HATE the Lakers, but I KNEW that they would win, because Shaq was spirit-crushingly good. Rooting against Duncan isn't as deflating: You always have hope that maybe Duncan can lose. I think it's easy to forget how often Shaq used to put up 40 and 20 like it was nothing. Only one other player has ever crushed my spirit in a way that approaches what Shaq did to me: Michael Jordan. It's hopeless to root against those two at their peak.

Tariq al Hayder said...

And in the 2001 playoffs, I remember Shaq made Duncan look like a bed-wetted little girl.

Tariq al Hayder said...

I mean, come on, look me in the way and tell me that if you could pick one player to be your go-to guy in Game 7 of the NBA Finals... and if your team wins you get a billion dollars... you're gonna choose Dr. J over Shaq?! Or Larry Bird? Or Hakeem? Give me a f*cking break.

The truth is, I'd pick Jordan before any other player. But if Jordan wasn't available, I'd find it extremely difficult to overlook Shaq.

Eboy said...

Shaq replaces his little buddy on Walsh's list before anyone else on there.

ASPOV said...

Let me first say 'thanks' to my guys for holding this site down. I know I've been an absentee 'mother' but trust me, I have my reasons. Second, AR you are so on about Mr. Duncan. I have quietly LOVED this dude's game and persona since he arrived in the league. I say quietly, cuz it's so not cool to favor a TD over a say LBJ or DWade or even love 'em or hate 'em Kobe. I just like Tim's approach, his seeming love for the game and the camaraderie of his teammates and coaches. It doesn't seem to be about the money with him, or the fame or public admiration or adulation, but a true love of the game. His accomplishments speak for themselves. So, thanks for this one, dude.

B. Long said...

I can name twenty players who were better than Karl Malone. Shaq is just one of them. Good stuff, AR. Tim is definitely slept on, and I think he likes it that way.

Hursty said...

How can you be one of the top 5 players of your generation and still be slept on so damn badly?
I don't get it.
Persona? Maybe.

AR said...

I love you,Cheryl.

TADOne said...

Hmmmmm...I agree...to a point. If we are talking strictly numbers, awards, and the such, then Tim may get the slightest of nods because of his college career and one more championship.

However, if we are to talk about the whole picture, then it's Shaq. As Tariq said, Shaq in his prime was just a force. Period.

Teddy-the-Bear said...

Tim Duncan > Shaquille O'Neal.